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Special P2PKE Session: Aging out of Care - Research and Policy Proposals - Shared screen with speaker view
Liz - JHS
Liz Bosma-Donovan here from John Howard Society in Belleville, Youth Services.
Denise Morrow
Can the report/PPP be placed in the chat as well
Shuah Roskies, OCL
Audio version of the MMIWG Report: https://www.mmiwg-ffada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Final_Report_Vol_1a-1.pdf
Linda Mussell
Report available at: https://www.stepstonesforyouth.com/about/what-happens-to-youth-from-care/
Shuah Roskies, OCL
YIT = Youth in Transition Workers (workers who work with 16-24 youth in or leaving care, largely based out of community agencies such as John Howard, YMCA etc.)
Shuah Roskies, OCL
ACES = Adverse Childhood Experiences
Carla Mulholland
sorry have to leave, called into an meeting. Shuah will this be shared afterwards?
Shuah Roskies, OCL
The frequent moves that can occur in care (6.5 is the average) also constitute an ACE: https://developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/aces-and-toxic-stress-frequently-asked-questions/
Khush Bamboat
Yes the webinar is being recorded and the slides will be posted along with the recording link
Kevin Campbell
The Unseen Costs of Foster Care. https://www.thetcj.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Alia-unseen-costs-of-FC.pdf
Erik Wexler (He/Him)
Can we put their contact in the chat box
Linda Mussell
My email: lmussell@uottawa.ca
Kevin Campbell
The American study, which is most similar, showed that those who paid the most significant share of the costs of care were the youth themselves. Youth in care experienced a loss of lifetime earnings from employment in Canadian dollars of 528,131.45. Physical, mental, and behavioral health conditions grew worse over time and prevented typical job and earning experience.The bottom line is those in care paid the largest share of unseen costs.
Leslie Pirie (she/her)
I am wondering if you might expand on your comments/recommendation that there be a redistribution of funding away from CAS to support older youth (I think that is what you said)
Nicole Stewart Kamanga
Thank you for this excellent presentation. Are there recommendations for OCL as we interact with youth?
Erik Wexler (He/Him)
Perhaps expanding on the developmental aspect of the youth experience in care and out of care - both upstream as well as down stream and what each stage of the life cycle looks like
Amanda McCooeye (she/her)
Exactly!!!! Same thing I was thinking Shuah
Stephanie Beausoleil North Bay Gateway Hub CMHA
Mining of bodies
Linda Mussell
Sharing a question received through direct message asking how many youth age out each year in Ontario: 1000 youth
Kristin Swardh
Thank you for the presentation, Marsha and Linda. Given the neoliberal context, understanding the cost analysis is going to have the most significant impact on how institutions care about the issue. Yet, I appreciate the time you folks have spent sharing the signifcnt impact the child protection systems has on human lives. Similar to you, Kevin, I question who is benefitting from the funds being allocated in this way.
Michelle Smith (she/her) FACS Waterloo
would you mind posting the link again to the research article. I switched from my phone to computer so all previous chat comments disappeared.
Linda Mussell
Report available at: https://www.stepstonesforyouth.com/about/what-happens-to-youth-from-care/
Michelle Smith (she/her) FACS Waterloo
Linda Mussell
Vanassa also had a question too
Alison macdonald
This isn’t a question. However, I find it interesting that the budget for the OCL is under that of victim services versus justice or social community etc. I think the categorization of costs impacts how government can address something so until we make some changes to how child care costs are addressed, not much will realistically change. I try to look where funding is classified to understand policy changes etc. just a comment :) sorry I’m using my phone to text. Hugely appreciative of the realistic perspective that people are mindful of costs versus outcomes. Thank you. A.
Stephanie Beausoleil North Bay Gateway Hub CMHA
Many of these individuals never escape from the system
Stephanie Beausoleil North Bay Gateway Hub CMHA
it is a life term
Nancy Russell
Kevin - thats a really interesting perspective. I am not a lawyer…so not sure if I am reading the meta messages correctly…are you suggesting class action lawsuits?
David Lewis-Peart (he/him)
Thanks for naming this part Shuah
David Lewis-Peart (he/him)
Vanessa W (she/her), Free2Be
One of the most ironic things about "aging out" is that young people often return back to the birth families they were traumatically apprehended from, yet these families are in no better positions to support their children due to systemic failures and cycles of intergenerational poverty the fall outside the child protection sector. In my opinion, the upstream preventative work that provides struggling families with the resources they need (across all sectors employment, income etc.) is the single mot important intervention in improving transitions from care - and ideally making a lot of our jobs irrelevant - the responsibility of improving transitions from care falls on more shoulders than just child welfare
Aviva Zukerman Schure
Vanassa Richards- Thompson
So true Vanessa
Louise Vandenbosch
https://nwi.pdx.edu/ This is information about the Wraparound Initiative.
Daniel Martin
It is a necessary conversation and about time. investment return on investment. Yes in dollars....and in social consequences... Systems being uncoordinated are self serving and self sustaining organisms. To Kevins note...if we know these things...why are we going to work to do the same thing day to day over and over again. Why are the systems maintained as they are? Who...benefits...? If kids end up sick, homeless, poorly educated...and so on as outcomes?
Sheila Alexander (she/her)
last week about the Child Welfare Redesign involving way more than Child Welfare. If we (as a big collective) are shifting to prevention, that will involve work by a lot of other sectors.
Ernie Hilton HomeBridge
I am very glad at 58 years old, my parents, didn't "age me out". etting go of young people we take in is ludicrous to me.
Chika Nnoli
Thank you to all the presenters. Great point Erik.
Robyn Switzer
Are there two or three concrete examples of money that could be spent to prevent these outcomes? i.e. specific policy initiatives and the approximate cost
Heather (She/Her) StepStones
The cost associated with supporting these youth has been used as a reason to not support them. It is clear that this excuse can not be used in the future.
Stephanie North Bay
David, Thank you+
Nancy Russell
Thank you to the presenters and to everyone for such a rich conversation. Unfortunately, I have to leave….
Lori S - Nipissing CAS (she/her)
thank you for sharing David!
Bonnie Harkness
I have to leave however I am so grateful to hear the passion people have around this issue. Great presentation.
Kevin Campbell
The breaking of relational environments is the biggest harm. Strong evidence of the disruption of the developing brain and body with cascading array of physical and mental consequences. Relationships are not just a kindness they are the foundation for building lifetime health for better or worse.
Ted Madison
Thanks to Drs. Mussell and Rampersaud for a very informative presentation.
18 is a challenge for most as they unfortunately missed such a large part of the ongoing learning education and nurturing that is required for individuals to develop secure self identity as well identify belonging to a community
Alison macdonald
Thank you kindly everyone! Best wishes for a lovely December and happy new year however you celebrate! From Alimac
Daniel Martin
Child welfare as a system isolates children and youth. Move them...and then move them again...and again. Losses are frequent and numerous. Moving them to "better?" Further and further away...from the very thing needed. BELONGING. Family (however defined) neighborhood and community, all they identify with. Interestingly...the system also isolates parents and caregivers in service. There is nothing more lonely than being a parent of a child welfare organization. As reported by them. A different lived experience requiring attention. And research is clear. Loneliness contributes to illness. Our method of service creates illness.
Charlene April
Kevin Campbell
Daniel Martin
Heather (She/Her) StepStones
We have to remember that creating interdependence has to be resourced and does not happen without support
Heather (She/Her) StepStones
www.stepstonesforyouth.com, heather@stepstonesforyouth.com
Diane McInnis
Phaedra, It's a heartbreaking reality for many of our clients thank you for sharing.
Erik Wexler (He/Him)
Free 2 Be (Housing First for Youth Leaving Care) https://www.woodgreen.org/, ewexler@woodgreen.org
even so called affordable housing is out of reach for single individuals
Lori S - Nipissing CAS (she/her)
cost of housing is a big issue for the youth as most of them can only afford room and board
Diane McInnis
OCL stops providing service at age 18. I've had client's that I've worked with for years and had to abruptly stop on their 18th birthday. Very hard
Erik Wexler (He/Him)
Housing is a massive issue - cost of living
Erik Wexler (He/Him)
Upstream, prevention and fusion policy
Daniel Martin
Imagine the impact on the health of all people who work in our current context...yes us...the workers in working in this adversity. If we KNOW the interventions that can impact change...and the outcomes of acting in alignment with them means we will see different and better for those we serve...imagine the positive health implications for them and concurrently for those in the work. Adversity causes negative health consequences. We know this! We work in adversity. The youth and families experience the same. Heather is right. We cannot continue in this way...
Jean Hyndman (she/her)
The allowance for youth on a VYSA or a CCYS doesn't begin to cover rent, and for the most part, Societies do nothing to help youth find housing that they can afford. Why can't Societies work on finding people in the community willing to offer room and board or basement apts to youth that would be affordable
Kevin Campbell
After every painful story of failing a young person and family, a critical question must be asked and added to the account; while this person suffers as a consequence of their system involvement, who BENEFITED from this? Repeatedly the answer will be the legacy system of CAS and OACS.
Louise Vandenbosch
https://web.cvent.com/event/84268e06-0e52-4713-8d52-42b9c117d5b0/summary A Call To Action to Change Child Welfare
Robyn Switzer
I think Jean makes a great point.
CCYS and VYSA amounts require review as well
J Spear (she/her)
CAS's struggle to find appropriate foster homes let alone finding suitable homes for our older youth. Building connections in our community is something we are always trying to do but it is not enough to meet the needs of all our youth. VYSA/CCSY allowance is not enough to live on or find an appropriate apartment. Workers spend a lot of their time trying to help youth get by on a day to day basis; food, clothing etc etc.
Heather (She/Her) StepStones
Let’s try to focus our attention on finding youth other people in their lives to support them so that they don’t have to rely on social workers, child and youth workers and housing subsidies. They could have their personal support networks and communities instead that can provide support..
Maxim Kryukov DCAS
Just to give people an idea about educational pots of moneys youth can access but have to complete separate application for.
Maxim Kryukov DCAS
• Ontario Post-Secondary Financial Aid Offices• Canada Learning Bond (CLB)• OSAP Student Assistance Program• OSAP Living and Learning Grant• Ontario Postsecondary Application Fee Reimbursement Program• Strengthening Student Support in Ontario• The Issue - Pathways to Education (www.pathwaystoeducation.ca )• Children’s Aid Foundation of Canada (www.cafdn.org )• Ontario Education Championship Team (www.oect.ca)• Hope for Children, Post-Secondary Scholarships• The Clark Bursary Program (www.ontarioyouthcan.org)• Ontario Association of Residence Treating Youth (www.oarty.net)
Maxim Kryukov DCAS
School Specific:• Laurenian University (Melanie Racine: mracine@laurentian.ca)• Georgian College (Renee Ferguson: renee.ferguson@georgiancollege.ca)• Loyalist College (Laura Russel: lrussell@loyalistcollege.com)• Western University (Kathryn Thomas Kathryn.thomas@uwo.ca)• Brescia University (College Rachel Bruijns brfinaid@uwo.ca)• Huron (Meklit Haile mhaile2@uwo.ca)• King’s Western University (Shelly Guerin shelly.guerin@kings.uwo.ca)• McMaster University (Sashaina Singh singhs37@mcmaster.ca)• Laurier (Andrea Dalimonte adalimonte@wlu.ca)• Seneca (Karen Del Monte Karen.Delmonte@senecacollege.ca)• Confederation (Linda Bannon lbannon@confederationcollege.ca)• Carleton University (Perry Legakis perry.legakis@carleton.ca)• Lakehead University (studentcentral@lakeheadu.ca)
Linda Mussell
A note I wanted to leave on: we're approaching an election in Ontario. Please each out to Heather at StepStones if you have the ability to add your voice to pushing for change. Marsha and I are also writing an op-ed and will be trying to draw attention to this conversation as much as possible
Vanassa Richards- Thompson
I am so sorry that I have to go now. Thanks to both DRs. for their excellent work and their presentation today and for everyone for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. The discussion will continue. In the meantime, stay safe and well everyone
Daniel Martin
Youth homelessness. The child welfare system is the feeder system to youth homelessness across North America. Heather - pasting what you said to echo it. Let’s try to focus our attention on finding youth other people in their lives to support them so that they don’t have to rely on social workers, child and youth workers and housing subsidies. They could have their personal support networks and communities instead that can provide support..
Kevin Campbell
We have ended foster care in many jurisdictions in US. What we have found is that systems said they had foster care crisis. It was not true, what they had was a family engagement crisis.
Stephanie North Bay
Meaningful BELONGING
Daniel Martin
Health and healing happens in relationships. Relationships of caring. Christmas is coming. Who are you spending it with? And who are youth in care spending it with? There is time to go back and help them connect right now...to belong
Nicole Stewart Kamanga
Great job as Moderator, Shuah!
Veronica Escobar Olivo
Thank you Dr. Rampersaud and Dr. Mussell for an incredible presentation, the quotes from the youth were powerful. And thank you to everyone that has spoken and shared such insightful and critical thoughts. It's lovely to see a more humanistic approach being taken towards these issues.
Kevin Campbell
Belonging on the way to becoming.
Stephanie North Bay
Exactly Kevin
Lori S - Nipissing CAS (she/her)
Thanks everyone for sharing thoughts and perspectives.
Louise Vandenbosch
Thanks, great session.
Melissa Forcione
Wonderful talk and insightful report. Thank you Dr. Rampersaud and Dr. Mussell!
Michelle Smith (she/her) FACS Waterloo
Caroline Kim
Thank you for this amazing presentation and conversation.
Chika Nnoli
Thank you everyone.
Robyn Switzer
Thank you everyone